[Name Deleted] wrote:
Scientific methods ….Individual breeders can only profit if a large population is is surveyed and controlled for desirable traits, even show results. It would need geneticists and vets in KC and breeding clubs to help in choosing mate combinations. This means that dog breeding will have to adopt farm animal breeding
practices. It is the way out of the dilemma, but a long one needing reeducation and loss of individuality.
Something between modern farm animal and endangered species conservation. Breeds that could materialize this most preferentially: GSD, Malinois, gun dogs, guide dogs, Blood hounds . In the long run public pressure will act in this direction in general dog breeding,
> imo.
>
> [Name Deleted]

This is well-written and sensible. Even I can’t find any nits to pick. But, the Intarweb despises a vacuum, or more accurately, authority. So here’s a typical reply to Name Deleted’s e-mail:

Hi [Name Deleted],
You’re missing one important point. The majority of pedigreed dog breeders are self-taught women. Ladies who delight in the use of their own creativity coupled with a written Standard to create dogs of grace, beauty and usefulness. This is the antithesis of reeducation, loss of individuality and public pressure. I agree it
is a way out of the dilemma. I don’t think it is the only way. I believe such an approach to dog breeders requires a finer touch. One which presents the problem in parts which can be integrated into a scientific whole *if* needed,. Yet which can also be implemented in *stages* as the breeder sees need and/or reaches
that level of desire/education about the “dilemma”. I do not mean this in a crafty, sneaky way. I mean it as submitting for approval a complete scientific package for healthier breeding which can be
adopted either in whole or as the need sees fit. This is a very important distinction.
Best Regards,
[Self-taught Woman]
[Anonymous Kennel]

I keep seeing this kind of thinking all over the Intarweb, that is, that there has to be an easy way to do everything. In this case, that there should be some breeding cookbook that requires no significant amount of study (reeducation?) and from which pieces can be selected willy-nilly. In this case I believe that Self-taught Woman is sincerely trying to communicate about her needs as a breeder as she perceives them, but there is a definite tone to her letter which suggests that we scientists don’t really know what we’re talking aboutl There have been a number of other messages in this thread suggesting that you just can’t quantify mental aptitude or performance drive or any number of other behavioral and working traits. This is, of course, absolute nonsense. What I think people are really bothered by are a few misconceptions, such as:

• Scientists won’t put anything in plain English because they’re trying to pull a fast one
• Scientists just don’t understand that you can’t measure what makes a dog “good”
• Scientists don’t think that dog breeders know anything worthwhile about producing good dogs
• Livestock and dogs are just too different for tools developed for the former to be useful in the latter.
• That genetics and breeding is easy

I don’t really understand what kind of “fast one” we’re supposed to be trying, but I know of one very vocal member of the group who seems to think that we’re up to something nefarious. The second point may have its roots in the innumeracy of the average person. You certainly can’t expect that observations of a few dozen litters provides a large enough sample size to draw reliable inference, particularly in the case of complex traits such as behavior. Breeders try to do this, and fail, which leads to the widely-held notion that you just can’t quantify those things. Trust me, we still go through the same thing with cattle breeders. In the 21st century. Madness. Point three, that we scientists pig-headedly refuse to scknowledge that dog breeders know anything may have a kernel fo truth to it. There are lots of bad, and demonstrably false, ideas out there about how genetics works. It is true that we get tired of debunking the same nonsense year after yer and get kind of snippy about it. That probably gives the appearance that we don’t think the people who choose to spend bucketsful of money and time and love breeding dogs know anything. Frankly, some of them don’t. But I’m sure that there are things we can learn from breeders.

I’m starting a new parageraph here because the last two points deserve it. First, using terms like “factory farming” is pretty pointless when referring to genetics. Type is of great interest to both dog and cattle breeders. Guess what? Type is largely related to hard-tissue traits, which are very highly heritable. In plain English this means that type (conformation) is easy to breed for unless you’re trying to select for traits with antagonistic correlations. We can even help in that case. Heh. The point is that if you can put some sort of measurement on it, even if it’s a a very loose ordered scale that’s not onbviously related to any physical measurement, we can change the populaton mean for that trait. Well, assuming that there is some genetic control of the trait. Which leads us to my final point: breeding and genetics is hard. Not “worship me as a god because I get it and you don’t” hard, but certainly “you can’t learn what you’re doing from two short articles in Dog Fancy” hard. In most cases it’s not exceptionally hard to get a bitch pregnant, but that’s not the same as breeding good dogs. Memorizing five-generation pedigrees and thinking that “Ch.” really means something is not hard, and it’s not the same as breeding a good litter.

Most of us scientists are nice people. Those of us who work with and publish on dogs do so because we’re really interested. But you’re going to have to meet us halfway. I get that you’re a precious snowflake with your own distinct approach to breeding the dogs you love. I hope that you’ll eventually get that I know a few things you don’t, just as you know some things I don’t. Most importantly, I hope you’ll eventually get that it’s going to take a lot of hard work by people on both sides of the fence to make the situation with purebred dogs better.